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What do Video Games Have to do with Team Building

Synopsis

In this interview with Chris Hatala from Games Done Legit, we dismiss some long-held beliefs that video games cannot be taken seriously, uncover ways video games can help businesses build teams, and learn how to translate gaming events into better leadership and business growth. 

Chris Hatala Event Director, Final Boss Games Done Legit

Chris Hatala
Event Director, Final Boss
Games Done Legit

About Our Guest

Chris Hatala is the Event Director and Final Boss (i.e. CEO) of Games Done Legit Entertainment in Cleveland, OH. Games Done Legit brings people together through the video games they love (and now virtual reality) at their lives' biggest moments. We build everything from both adult & youth special events to student engagement in schools, because everybody games!

Transcript

Mike: Hello everyone, this is Mike with Modern da Vinci and welcome to another Modern da Vinci podcast. I am super excited today to have with us on this podcast, Chris Hatala who has been an Event Director and Final Boss at a company called Games Done Legit. Their website is gamesdonelegit.com, and I really thank you for taking the time to talk with us. Ahh, Chris, how are you doing this morning? 

Chris: I am great. Thank you so much, Mike, for having me on Modern da Vinci.

Mike: Yeah. Absolutely. I. First of all, I love [laughs] I love your name. I love your-your ahh title for ahhh for your company. Event Director and Final Boss at Games Done Legit. That's really cool. [laughs]

Chris: Yeah. I wanted something that's a little original you know just like our company RIP of ahh you know inserting video games entertainment into special events. You know, sort of company space around so you know everything's a way for us to do with the company, like let's say I have a sitter, it's only to make sense to like the larger you know business community and someone who hasn't played a video game since batman in the 80's, you know my job title still needs to ahhh resonate with them. 

Mike: Yeah. Yeah. Definitely. Yeah, it's true. Very clever. Very good so okay, can you tell us a little bit more. I think you know, people who listen to our podcast, you know, everybody is very familiar with Modern da Vinci ahhh you know, we're trying to help grow people's businesses and to ammm help them become world class leaders. Can you tell us a little bit about Games Done Legit and give us a feel of what you're all about and for how we got connected here? 

Chris: O yeah. Absolutely. Ammm so Games Done Legit, we basically take you know the video games that people love and now virtual reality as well, and we leverage them for the events ahhh that are the most important part of people's lives so any kind of special events, we do like corporate team building activities, ammm four player Pacman and Donkey Kong and like Mario Cart and things like that to VR. Ammm during the course you know we do bat mitzvahs and non-profits like fundraising, you know what video games events and amm even with education or in school programs now and we're very a developer of future of a what we can do with an especially virtual reality in classrooms.

Mike: O yeah. Wow. Some of the virtual reality stuff that's coming out is is pretty impressive. Ahhh, do you. Ahh so the kids ahh Iā€™m sure love it for the schools, what about I mean at the corporate events, you know, are the ahh the corporate people that show up, are they equally excited about amm these team building events that you put on?

Chris: O yeah because I mean what we do you know we for the corporate stuff, whether you know, anyone pretty much under like the age of like 50 now, I would say you know at least you got you know memory, memories of ummm the 80's arcade like. It doesn't matter if haven't played a game since defender. Like that was a part of a popular culture at the time and so there were so few video games so the ones that were popular were even more important in Britain for the people, so you know we go back to you know the 80 things or you know so like umm I'm roughly 34 so I'm kind of like the tail of [inaudible] so like Nintendo and then you know we all played tennis, table tennis and sports games like NBA Jam, you know Maden and [inaudible] everything so you know, you use it's like whatever games ahhh you know really match up you know with that generation that they especially played growing up and [inaudible] are still simple and easy to pick up now even if you know you haven't played them in 20 years and amm they have been they just have this-this really interesting this social power to, you know, bring people together and get people smiling and laughing and kind of like break up sects [inaudible] that ammm companies really seem to find beneficial so far.

Mike: Yeah you know I that's [laughs] that's exactly why I was excited about talking with you. It's that you I'm a huge video game player myself whether it's on my phone, or you know hooking the PC up to the-the television and playing ammmm and I've seen some people talk about the benefit to businesses and schools and ahhh you know different events obviously for entertainment purposes but ammm but this was exciting to me because you seem to be of high ahhh business activity specifically team building which I wanted to ask you a bunch of questions about today into you know the-the sort of fun culture of-of gaming. It's very meaning. So have you have you always done this job? Where did you where did you get your start? 

Chris: Ahh as the ammmm the young guy basically you know in school all I hardly thought about was video games. It was you know I mean my main hobby was the only child and amm no one had amm I had basically have to have fun in school all the time only to talk about video games but amm whenever we go at the arcade as a little kid you know it didn't matter that I was like short and like you know dorky looking or like giant glasses like at the arcade. It was hot. I mean kids did not like tease each other over the normal thing because you are all there to play street fire or like mortal combat or whatever. So it was a really big impact I mean especially you know even over other video games and amm it's how they started competing at the street fighter games, the national tournaments and we started to bring our own that became the second biggest tournament in the world for ammm stretch years and we did that in 2006 to 2012 and amm you know we have 10 countries coming and ammm I realized that this was the thing that made me happy. The happiest thing that I had in my life and I was most passionate about was entertaining other people you know through this video game events so I ahhh started to learn about like to the professional special events industry which is very thriving events industry here in Cleveland, Ohio so amm worked in there for a little bit and I couldn't find a job as an events coordinator, so I just had this idea of amm you know doing gaming entertainment you know possibly for special events and this is just this sort of company just working on it and then amm for my desk job I just felt that it was time, and I've been doing it full time for about two years now for Games Done Legit.

Mike: You know ahhh that's really awesome. So you've really been ahh you've really been sort of passionate about this ahhh your whole life or where ever turning into ahhh into a really neat business it sounds like.

Chris: Yeah I think everyone deserves that opportunity and amm I think it's harder for the generation that came before us like my mom's generation and her brothers. Ahhh you know it's like work really hard, you know sacrifice your family, you know, you know like ah you know mid-management you know upper level management and ammmm that's kind of how you should know from the evil like that you know but when I was you know interning you know at jobs when I was 16 or 17, I was just surrounded by all these people who you know they didn't really seem to get bigger jobs but just working corporate America. I think more and more people like our age and younger you know want to have a job that you know you feel passionate about, have like a positive impact and you can see the positive impact you know that your job has and ammm yeah I think everyone deserves some tips in the generation to see you know what you truly want to do.

Mike: Yeah yeah. I agree. Yeah. It's really interesting that you say that because in every bits of people here listening ahhh you know that that have a similar feeling towards video games but I was sitting around the table with some colleagues and we're you know we're at dinner and just chit chatting about life and ahhh a friend of mine and myself who are probably the same plan and this ahhh phone game cult class of plans you know probably is lost by everybody's heard about it at this point but yeah, we've been talking about it and it's getting excited about it and you know, we've just popped in for five minutes to play the came and the leave and then and return to work but we have a colleague of ours you know do you have any games on your phones? You know what do you like to play? you know we just assumed that he ahhh you know that he also had a favorite app- angry birds or whatever and he looked, and he looked at us you know very seriously, and the funny thing that he had this almost Russian accent and he said I play the game 'business' and [laughs] and then we laughed at first but then we all felt a little bit childish you know for for still playing games like we did when we were younger even though everybody at the table had their favorite game that they played you know ahh he was pretty serious about ahh the fact that he didn't play games and that he was working on you know quote "more important things" so do you often run into such banter when you describe what you do? What do you say to people like that?

Chris: Hmmm it's strange, there is kind of like a strange stigma mostly from you know from like older generation like not everyone, my grandpa was [inaudible] and he taught me like counter 64 you know, and they bought me my first Nintendo, and they got me in the video games and we're saying mostly grandpa but amm you know in America and this is less of, there's this great documentary amm called 'thank you for playing this game'. It's a really really sad story called 'best dragon cancer' amm but ahh this is another thing. They talked about a very serious matter and its more like an experience in the video game, and it really picked up like in Europe before America. They were going to pack and make these big shows and people didn't know what to make out of this video game that you know was like about very serious, very sad experience and ammm beaming is like starting to grow up. I mean 95% of kids play video games almost everyone from you know our generation had exposure to games throughout the 80's, throughout the 90's ammm the thing is it just needs to be presented in a more mature way and the mobile games like VR are changing what a video game is because I think this is like this is like a longer discussion though like the triple A video game development which is like you know a new bears or like the new Halo like yes gaming making all this money now but those games largely are marketed to like a very specific ahhh demographic which is amm like how games have this checklist of like blah blah blah and they you know generally have this certain level of violence and things like that. Ammm things like mobile apps and like the Indi games singing and what's happening with like VR ammm its really expanding. I think in like popular consciousness what a video game is so much to the fact that I think we're going to neither good terms or perfectly interactive extremes because there can be more games like this giant cancer. What's happening to VR that they're not just video games and like I mean there's just more to the point that video games they're just they're just fun, they help us interact with other people in a totally different, totally fun way and ammm there's really nothing to dislike about them and now I explained to people that you even like call of duty, they're doing research. Video games are so popular. They're probably starting to do research on the good that we get from playing video games even like how call of duty helps us amm have more ahhh people to see detail and seek out the things that we are looking for visually. [Inaudible] Interviewing I mean you can just put your head in the sand and pretend like video games don't matter or like it's for little kids but it's not the reality at all.

Mike: Yeah ahh I want to add one other thing you know after I thought about the comment  and-and retrospect you know and he just said it, different perspective and when I learned about your company and that you're using it as a platform for team building ahh especially in corporations right where you have ammm all different ages playing you know game to build the team and-and sort of become better workers together ahhh it was a very exciting prospect. When did you come to this realization that you can use video games to help build teams for corporations?

Chris: Ammm it's been a very ahh organic dury bin [inaudible] and I cause I amm I started from ok I run a tournament and then us high school came on and wanted tournament for their kids and I had to see how you know we ran that other tournament you know two k and I had just danced and brought it set up just for fun and it really reinforced to me that the experience that I had as a kid where video games are a unique way for me to interact you know as peers with kids I wouldn't ahh you know never imagine, wouldn't have anything to do with it and then those reinforcing the [inaudible] community rose meeting people all over the world you know. Totally different. You know ahh all races, all difference issue, economic backgrounds and we all bonded you know just during this common interest and amm that came with the idea then it was really other people like amm there's this group called the International Special Events Society which amm manipulable pain is extra changing it's name because the acronym is Paces and [laughs] [inaudible] Yeah we've been around since the 80's but ah [laughs] it's a you know ahhh thinking and set up an amber alert over having meetings but in era. You know but.

Mike: [Laughs] so that's not a good thing.

Chris: So anyways so it's like it's like whose who like the rock and roll hall of fame is strictly well you know for members amm you know like every hotel been you and all the stuff and I just kind of came in you know feverishly started to you know network with these people.

Mike: O yeah and I was like "hey you" and it's video game entertainment. 

Chris: Correct ahh just the idea that people flooded at me and they still haven't and they all good wrote so its like they still didn't want to be, "O this is terrific for family reunion thing, class reunion" and we'd be like "I didn't even think of that. I mean make you a sheep you know. 

Mike: Yeah yeah. You know.

Chris: [inaudible] favor to that. You know it was really from you know  mentors and other people you who you know are already in the industry and you know who give you that idea and then when I get an idea everything I do I just tailor what I know cause I know so much about video games that so many that's due from just being upset so games are loving video games and you know reading the magazine and discouraging different games, chatting with our friends, feeding new games and all that stuff so I just go back to the reservoir of knowledge that I have, and you know have cool people around that I can bounce ideas off of then and you know design stuff that you know seems to work and people like.

Mike: Yeah. That's that's great. There are specific types of company that you find yourself working with or is it that sort f all up on the map? Is it ammmm you know every different kind?

Chris: Yeah I mean pretty much all over the map. I mean amm most companies because I always ask you know what's the demographic is, you know that worth buying an activity for and you know most of the time like most of the games that we use are amm you know similar formats because it's gotta be stuff and once I'm dealing with you know like 20 something to like early 30 something that you know can maybe handled to analog which ammm you know, if you haven't played video games since you know the PlayStation 2 you know very seriously rotate it out you cannot pick up a joystick, or I should say a modern controller to operate. There're too many buttons. They're too complex.

Mike: Sure. 

Chris: You know ahh we'd stuff like ahh there's Pacman versus which are the game I'm giving you and wanting to know one got to play because you need the Gameboy fans, there is a special cable, you need the game but if one person has Pacman and the Gameboy advance, just download a Gameboy then everyone else is a ghost and you know they have to and we just design something like o you know they have to work together, catch batman or I might be Pacman, and they have to you know come over the plan on the side because you know I'm an old school gamer. I'm like good at the game. They have to form the strategy to trap me you know as batman ammm and just-just stuff like that like you know ammm Mario Double Dash, two people have to be in a car at the same time. There's a really cool VR game called ahh 'keep talking' and nobody explodes because here we are, and one person with the headset is like looking like this is like looking at a bomb and they have to like, they have to operate the controls to the music and everyone else around them of course the headset where the man can't see says the manual how to, just use it so you know to figure out ok you know you take this part and you take this part and you take this part and then you have to communicate verbally to the headset to where you know ok you know flip this switch, flip that switch so and there's that's very good and there's all kinds of stuff and it's fond enough to be creative and ahh to see people have a great time and you as you say with kids or with adults you know there's nothing like that bricks that click of like working with someone through like video games. 

Mike: Yeah I mean it sounds like you have a very specific objective for people to accomplish they're not and you know it some about i'm sure people ever sitting down to play and have fun but with ahh you know the corporate team building events. It sounds like there is a specific objective and you sort of crafted ways ahhhh to force them almost to work together towards ahhh a single goal.

Chris: Yeah and ammm hopefully game i was our listeners and readers know you know if they you know sea level ineffective or you know they starting their own business you know, your business you know is at least how i approach it is you know you need to solve a problem for someone else and you know figure out how to get that you know that project you in their hand and explain how you're going to solve their problem so basically what my company does is just in a totally different way you know with video games. 

Mike: Sure. Yeah yeah well what's the you know as people are playing these games that they're seeking out the same objective together ammm in these environment, do you see ahh you know difficulty that some team members have either either with the game itself or bore between team members you know what's the biggest weakness I would say that you see as people are doing these team building activities? Is there anything consistent ahh across the different companies?

Chris: Ammm I think this whole rumor that kids events that we do as well actually in schools, we serve ammm like I have prepared a program called verizon education centres here that ahhh it's a free service and they ah it's a inner strictly on. It serves a lot of kids that you know didn't have the same advantages that I had you know at 5, 6, 7 you know years old and everything and ammm most of the struggles was like 'o this is like too complicated' you know 'I can't do this' and its sad when kids see that but you know it's a more natural reaction ahhhh to adults just to like sit down with something and say 'o i don't get this like right away' and you know this turn a lot and ammmm that sort of picture [inaudible] and we we come up with the most week basic video games that pretty much anybody can really respond to and amm you know after they needed basically like minimal coaching you know, they can get the hang of it and understand and ahhh I've I've pretty much approach all the stuff and I can't say who [inaudible] until we work together because obviously she had no choice you know being with me and it's like my company so I was like can Kate handle this? Can Kate figure this out with no direction and amm that's how I paid our activities around it and amm you know we're seeing pretty good success because you know hearing the respond and ahhh we representing to just pick up and play.

Mike: Yeah so that they're not ahhh they're not focused on mechanics of playing the game so much as they are focused on working with their teammates to ahhh to accomplish something. That makes a lot of sense.

Chris: Yeah. Yeah you know most team building is going to be like that. You're not going to have that kind of technical components to do it. It would mean that the courses would be a minimal technical component so we need less as much as possible.

Mike: Yeah yeah that makes a lot of sense. You know we amm we just really see us yesterday ammm by chance actually we're talking about team building here ammm and yesterday we just released a new post on fixing or mending broken teams and how do you identify you know a team that is having trouble ahh either working together or ahhh accomplishing an objective you know within a corporation and then how do you go about fixing that and so with you know with that, ahhh hot on the heels of that article that we jut released, I guess I would ask you, do you see broken teams coming to you? Are they you know are managers bringing their teams as a reward for you know for people that are working well together or are some of them coming to you-you know to help create a new dynamic or a new culture with the teams ahh within the organization and using video games as a way to do that?

Chris: Ammm for for right now mostly it's been reward but ammm you know I wholeheartedly believe in our mission statement and you know like what you what is it that we said like you know the positive benefits of the game and all that stuff and so I feel like more down the road when you know I have more fairly more solid evidence and solid research and you know just my company you know it's just kind of grown you know one man operation for the most part with this thing so I'm building step by step and ammm I think it's definitely going to be a huge sell is that ammm not only ok we know that things can be like a fun thing you know you can you got everything but ahhh you know ahhh I don't want to present that amm you know hard return and so I'm like absolutely satisfied and what we do is I feel like I need you know little bit more evidence or more research behind to to back what is it that I already know you know explicitly and the anecdotal evidence that I have. I still feel that I need to have a little bit more on paper before presenting [inaudible] but ammm I absolutely believe that you know if we go to like a HR manager and we say like you know 'Okay, here's our packages but you know we always have it. What are your challenges? You know, what are the problems that we can fix?' and when we get to some higher level difficulties you know that they have that's going to be really like where I can crack my knuckles and just be like okay, i'm going to work here and i'm going to design some things that you know i'm going to get people that are in their shell or get people to communicate you know whatever their needs are, we'll design something for it and think around it and I know it will be successful.

Mike: Yeah. I'm excited. You've ahh you've kinda of indicated ahhh from when we started talking that it sounds like you design a little bit. I'm sure you reuse like some of your events as well but it sounds like when a corporation comes to you, you're able to get swerve into the bottom of what is it that they're dealing with....ammm and then design something that is you know impactful specifically to their organization whether it's whether it's for fun or like you say in the future if somebody's coming to you to help you know mend or fix what they perceive to be a broken team.

Chris: Yeah because I mean I think like cause ahhh you know I it's hard for me to wrap my head around it, but I'm starting to understand a little bit more of the concept of like a serial entrepreneur. it's like they say they get something going and then you know they get bored with it, or this is already working, I want to go do something else like ahh it's ahh with the event that we used to run you know every year we just walk away at the height of our success in 2012 for a probably good reason but part of it was just like we just fell for something that's more innovating and despite the team has just become like a machine and ammmm I was just I was getting bored with it and I didn't like the motivations of a lot of players and a lot of the organizers you know we were just really doing it for money at that point and I'm like hate the games anymore [laughs] and amm for me like no matter what I do I always have to have the passion behind it or else I'm just not going to do it you know. I guess it's my personality so that's why the corporate building is fun because if I don't know that I'm delivering something you know customized and I really designed something is special and I can really be proud of, it's like it's a bit bizarre. i just don't want to like do it so because it's it's really important for us to you know to every event have that care.

Mike: Right. Yeah that that makes sense. When the event turns into sort of a machine and ahh they're not focused on the fun or the passion anymore it can make it difficult. Ammm you know I have a question along the lines of ammm this team building and this is again coming from the article that we just wrote yesterday. Ammm it occurred to me that you know, when I so I play video games too. I've played multiplayer games either with my kids or friends for the weekend. Everybody has a role to play in the game and it's very synonymous right with with a business team environment where everybody also has a role to play and I think though that in games you know that those roles may be a little more defined. It's easier to put your finger on what your specific role is in the video games versus when you're in a company. Ahhh, you know that might be a little bit more complicated because you've got multiple duties and lots of things going on and projects and tasks so that was one thing that came to mind that was a principle I guess is that you know having a role for every team member is important and my question to you is what other team work or principles do you see at play when you know corporations are coming to you and ahh and these events are going on ahh during multiplayer games and how do they use that to build their teams and execute projects and have fun to go back to the back to the office?

Chris: Yeah and like amm just like you just said Mike, it's ahh one of the great things about video games is something that kids needs is those specified roles so a team can work most efficiently together ahhh. [inaudible] boards like you know board members in larger organizations you know me being younger there are like board members I sometimes felt that marginalized and you know I had like this great idea and I'm like in the minority so I have to felt, I felt like man like 'Why am I even here?' I have no place like you know on this piece and ammm. And amm it's a really crappy feeling for anyone and you know I think it happens a lot in the workplace so with something like video games are so great. You know its like good brought up because everyone gets that special like school like o airplane packed maybe I'm new to your ghost you know exactly you know would be useful to be doing and amm you know who you're working with and ahhh you know you need to figure out how to work together and ammm we even used rock banks and we have a full rock band set up, keyboard, drums, you know two guitars, two mikes and everything and that alone is an activity that we do because ahh you know, whether [beeps] it's ammm you know they're priest or whatever team that they are on at the company and they have to sit down at it or an activity where there's breaking up people randomly to get you know people to basically train and work together you know, rock band is perfect because you know even on easy you know you're not a rock band player but maybe we can put you on vocal but ahh you know and you all have to work together and you know to like have the song and everything and ammm face to the side right there and then that kind of helps you to feel like who're the leaders. Who're are you going to like no I really want to do this either because they're more outgoing or because they're more passionate about it or you know whatever so you get to see a lot of personality at play and gaming, it can be a healthy thing because it's now like a work related project where you're going to have a little bit more ego you know ego, just naturally you know. You know when you're doing the video games and you got you know a friendly moderator there and it's you know and it's all in good fun, ammm you're able to maybe see those issues that a team might have and address them directly and amm even give you some take aways for the team after that but ahhhh I mean just throw them out there and just ahhh you know see how how they work and then ahhh address from there.  

Mike: Yeah. That ahh makes a lot of sense. I played the rock band before and i've been stuck. I I would call it stuck in the singer role which I am not very good at doing which ahh you know typically trying to negotiate with the other people on the game just see if I can play guitars or drums or something different.

Chris: [laughs]

Mike: Wow. This has ahhh this has been really great, I guess we're we're getting pretty close on time. I've got you know dozens of other questions that I can ask you but ammm you know maybe we can do another interview sometime and and get to the bottom of that and talk some more. I mean let me leave you with one final question. Ahh when it comes to you know playing video games in a team, it's easy to define the roles right like you just said rock band, everybody has a job to do, ammm it may even be easy to see sort of like the weak links in the team right, me as the singer for example in devising plans for approving that ammm you know I need to move over and play guitar and solo sing because we're not going to do very well but do that and it's easy to communicate with each other so you know how how do you see people or how do you yourself have translate all of this and to the messy world of business right? Everybody has different tasks to do and different concerns and worries. You know, how does how does your events sort of help them you know number one get past all of that. All of those worries and concerns and and then how do they also go back you know how do you see them going back to their corporation as better teams or as better individuals after they've gone to one of your events.

Chris: You know I think down the road I hope that our video game exercises can fix every problem that you know a team might have you know but it's probably not realistic but you know I'd like to shoot for the stars like that and ammm you know in the mean time amm the way I look at all the stuff is that ahh you know what makes a company unique and why people enjoy so much is that face to face interaction with other people is so important and until in the office we define a better way to communicate then e-mails and conference calls and things like that ammm it's really hard to you know read other people ahhh you know ahhh not take those receipts like the wrong way and like  a text conversation just as if it were in your office. And we're also so busy that you know, it's really hard to have a lot of face to face interaction you know with your colleagues and I think a lot of this is [inaudible] for me but I think I'd just had so many misunderstandings where I try to learn from it and everything but just when you're not seeing people you know face to face and you don't see that the empathy and like ahhh you know you should you know it's part out a little bit. 

Mike: No problem.

Chris: Yeah that's answer for like the final end but ahh this raise us to the point that you know video games are a thing that ahhh take us back to our childhood most of which to the time when we were younger or we're playing games with our kids and we're kind of like [beeps] be kids again. But amm that happiness and that joy that comes from like playing games and accomplishing things in those settings we're going through this happy environment and things like that just that face to face interaction even if it's a bit of competing even of each am or you know whatever, that has an immensely positive impact on a team because you're getting together, you're having fun and that relationship and that even if you're craving that you know that in the short term that might prepare you know this personnel they sent an email couple weeks ago or they set this thing in the lunch room you know that blah blah blah.

Mike: [laughs]

Chris: It's something that I can't emphasize enough how important it is for people to actually be able to see each other and work together to you know come together in the same space and amm kind of a mediocre answer but ahh yeah.

Mike. Yeah. No you know it sounds like a good one. I mean if people. It makes a lot of sense too right. It's a way for people to come together, remember how to work together in a fun and exciting way instead of under the stress of a a you know project deadline or something similar so yeah ahh this is really great. Ahh thank you so much for taking the time to ahhh to meet with me here. Let me ask you, if people are interested in contacting you, what's the best way to get in touch?

Chris: Yeah so our website is gamesdonelegit.com and whatever kind of events that you're looking for whether it's bar mitzvahs or corporate or even the wedding reception, they are all presented to you on our sites that you can kind of go down the rebel of whatever kind of event that you're looking for that we can provide you know interactive entertainment or activities for and amm we we're kind of new. We have a blog where ammm and that's another place to cross over to see what to do. I amm just decided again and everyone do something and I just like I just want to do. I can't force myself to do things so I've blogged about business and I've just put it in the context of video games like in the blog. Four things that you can learn about starting a business that I learned from the national warrior once the [inaudible] yeah so check our website. Basically, what we do is ammm you know I'm trying to create the demand for something that people don't know is out there and have the love yet so you know if you're passionate about video games ahhh I'd love to hear about it number one. I love talking about video games. I love hearing people stories because everyone's got stories of you know growing up playing games you know with their family. How that cultures with their friends you know whatever ahh I'd love your stories and our social media platform at gamesdonelegit and we'd love to talk to you about what we're doing with our business or just games in general.

Mike: Hats off and thank you thank you again. Everybody this is Chris Hatala with Games Done Legit at www.gamesdonelegit.com. That is all for now. Thank you for listening and we hope that this interview on video games and team building gave you some ideas to help you grow your business and become a world class leader. With that in mind, we wish you massive growth, business success and we look forward to talking to you again soon.